What do you think the future will look like in 20 years. The link was the industrial/commercial vision from 1939 America. I found it very interesting. What now?
Good heavens above! What an extraordinary production. Some of it has come true, of course, but much has not. Certainly technology has failed to deliver a Utopia - well, it was always a bit on the optimistic side. :-)
In general, a fascinating look at a heroic aatempt to paint the future in bright colours at a time when the world looked a dark place indeed.
Thanks for reading, Jon. What strikes me is that America's corporations had a vision and that vision shaped the next twenty years despite a world war getting in the way! And it was this vision that made America great. I don't have any answers either for what now, but it's a very serious question to investigate... Those protesting against corporate greed etc., which is the negative side of this future we live in, lack a corresponding vision for what kind of future they would like to see. It's negative without the clarity of a desired outcome...democracy, freedom and equality are just measures and means, not the end in itself. It's easy to snipe down other's visions because no vision is perfect. (Just as no voting system is fair and this even a theorem in mathematics called Arrow's Theorem!) So we have to just do our best. What is our vision? If we don't have one, you can be sure that the likes of Facebook, Google, China and the American military industry will. If we do have one, maybe we can help shape that future?
I think that's absolutely true! The more we can keep our minds clear of negativity and the more we can look for and envision the good things we want for our future, the more likely it is that "good" will overcome "evil" in our future.
If you want a vision of the future, there is not better place to look than Ray Kurzweil. The documentary Transcendent Man is about him. He invented the flatbed scanner, a reader for the blind and others. There are Kurzweil organs in rock bands. He has been predicting the future for decades and so far has been right in most cases, a few years off on others. He says that because technology grows exponentially that by the year 2029 machines will become self aware. Also that we will become cyborgs, merging with machines and AI to become what would look to us now, like gods. As far as the Occupy movement, I think their vision will become clarified as time goes on. It took a few years just to get the movement started. There is so much that needs changing, it's difficult. I agree that the movement will have to get specific. I would like to see laws enacted so that corporations can't use lobbyists to interfere with government. Corporations have the rights of a person, this kind of thing needs to be changed. I would like to see the people responsible for the world financial meltdown, jailed.
quite a few of those countries didnt exist for 5 or 6 years after they unfurled those flags atop their presentation buildings-- if this is the new yorks world fair i know my mom visited it more than once-- what will the world look like in 20 years? pretty much the same as it does now-- but much more crowded.
Fromm from his Credo: I believe that the only force that can save us from self destruction is reason; ...
I believe that reason cannot be effective unless man has hope and belief. Goethe was right when he said that the deepest distinction between various historical periods is that between belief and disbelief; and when he added that all epochs in which belief dominates are brilliant, uplifting, and fruitful, while those in which disbelief dominates vanish because nobody cares to devote himself to the unfruitful.
Catherine, thanks for the heads-up about Ray Kurzweil. I am familiar with the so-called "singularity" event when computers (should the present rate of advancement continue) are predicted to overtake humans. Personally though, I believe we are more than just very advanced robots as the scientific materialists think. I guess than means I believe that there is such a thing as an "I" apart from all the constituents, but then where is this mysterious "I" located?
About Occupy Wall St., you make good suggestions. Basically, you want to hold individuals accountable for the crimes of their companies because after all you can't put a company in jail...but the way the system is set up makes it natural for the individual to dodge responsibility, natural too for some people who today support Occupy Wall St. to join the banking system tomorrow if they could, just because the money is too good to refuse. And the latter I think highlights that the problem is not with the individual but with the system that allows it. And yet as I was saying in an earlier comment to Jon, it's almost certainly true that every system is unfair, so it's where we choose our balance. It's no coincidence it seems to me that the fall of communism has preceded the current capitalist crisis. The existence of the communist threat perhaps forced the proponents of capitalism to steer clear of risking its excess. Capitalism and socialism are both flawed systems without the third... emancipation!
Billy, yes! this is exactly what your mother went to see... how cool to know that link! I just read it on wiki:) Much more crowded would be ok as long as we can control it... the greatest danger of course is an extinction event... Since I was talking to Catherine about the singularity, the two events might coincide, and robot historians of the future might study in lessons how they killed us off. :(
No, but it looks incredibly highly-rated, 8.2 on IMDB. I wonder if this is the real reason Obama had something against Matt Damon's performance in The Adjustment Bureau at the press office dinner. Must have hit a raw nerve.
O, what a disappointment! He's brought the Nobel Peace Prize into disrepute. There are people who need to be held accountable for sure, though I don't think jail is a magic solution to the problem or America would have very low violent crime rates and it doesn't.
You're right about that! No, we need change a paradigm shift in the way society works worldwide. But those lowlifes should be jailed. They ruined the lives of millions and they are still sitting around giving themselves bonuses!
I want them to be held accountable. I'm very uncomfortable with any kind of vilification though. For me, it's not about hating on the bankers. Many bankers would support this movement against corporate greed, if they had the freedom to do so. But they work in banking because it's a legal way of getting rich quickly. Maybe it's only a fraction of the bankers that have caused problems as well as the system itself. I can also see how easy it must have been for even the worst excesses to have happened. They gamble with others' money...if they lose or lose double it makes no difference, they lose their job. If they win or win double, there's a big difference, so as long as they're too big to fail, banks and bankers are always going to be tempted to double up..Unless there's govt. oversight at the heart of the system and stiff penalties. I'd much rather see the money followed than put people in jail. The latter will happen if necessary. We need awareness of responsibility for sure... I'm in the rather unfortunate position of both supporting Obama for president and thinking he should be tried for war crimes. I'm not saying he's guilty necessarily, but I think he has a lot to answer for.
I'm sorry, I'm talking about a few specific people, not just bankers in general. But you'd have no way of knowing that from what I've written. See the movie, there are specific people who knew what they were doing, knew what the fallout would be, and didn't care. You are right about following the money. Yes, Obama, he sure talked a great talk. I don't know what's worse, having him stay on, or his Conservative opponent. Sorry, Republican.
Yes, I'd like to see such people tried and their assets frozen in the meantime. Oh, and I just noticed a language difference which changes the tone of what you said...to me jailed means punished for their proven guilt, whereas in America jails are where people are held pending trial...
Matt Damon is the interviewer isn't he? Really good! I imagine a lot of those in authority who did agree to be interviewed thought he wouldn't have a clue and would give them an easy ride, but he'd really done his research. 1:10:28-1:11:02 "can we turn this interview off please" hahaha
I liked the Soros image of the oil tanker, separating deposit savings and investment banking, but it applies equally to globalisation generally... that a crisis in banking loans could effect every economy of the world because we are connected.
I'm going to have to leave Part IV Accountability 1:14:00 for another day... how ironic!!!
Clever you finding it online! I think Matt is the narrator, but not the interviewer. Haha, yeah that seems to be the way accountability is being handled. :) Glad you are watching it, I'm going to post this link for the others, thank you!
Good heavens above! What an extraordinary production. Some of it has come true, of course, but much has not. Certainly technology has failed to deliver a Utopia - well, it was always a bit on the optimistic side. :-)
ReplyDeleteIn general, a fascinating look at a heroic aatempt to paint the future in bright colours at a time when the world looked a dark place indeed.
As to what now? 'anged if I knows, mate.
ReplyDeleteThanks for reading, Jon. What strikes me is that America's corporations had a vision and that vision shaped the next twenty years despite a world war getting in the way! And it was this vision that made America great. I don't have any answers either for what now, but it's a very serious question to investigate... Those protesting against corporate greed etc., which is the negative side of this future we live in, lack a corresponding vision for what kind of future they would like to see. It's negative without the clarity of a desired outcome...democracy, freedom and equality are just measures and means, not the end in itself. It's easy to snipe down other's visions because no vision is perfect. (Just as no voting system is fair and this even a theorem in mathematics called Arrow's Theorem!) So we have to just do our best. What is our vision? If we don't have one, you can be sure that the likes of Facebook, Google, China and the American military industry will. If we do have one, maybe we can help shape that future?
ReplyDeleteI think that's absolutely true! The more we can keep our minds clear of negativity and the more we can look for and envision the good things we want for our future, the more likely it is that "good" will overcome "evil" in our future.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a vision of the future, there is not better place to look than Ray Kurzweil. The documentary Transcendent Man is about him. He invented the flatbed scanner, a reader for the blind and others. There are Kurzweil organs in rock bands. He has been predicting the future for decades and so far has been right in most cases, a few years off on others. He says that because technology grows exponentially that by the year 2029 machines will become self aware. Also that we will become cyborgs, merging with machines and AI to become what would look to us now, like gods.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Occupy movement, I think their vision will become clarified as time goes on. It took a few years just to get the movement started. There is so much that needs changing, it's difficult. I agree that the movement will have to get specific. I would like to see laws enacted so that corporations can't use lobbyists to interfere with government. Corporations have the rights of a person, this kind of thing needs to be changed. I would like to see the people responsible for the world financial meltdown, jailed.
quite a few of those countries didnt exist for 5 or 6 years after they unfurled those flags atop their presentation buildings-- if this is the new yorks world fair i know my mom visited it more than once-- what will the world look like in 20 years? pretty much the same as it does now-- but much more crowded.
ReplyDeleteIndeed Jon!
ReplyDeleteFromm from his Credo:
I believe that the only force that can save us from self destruction is reason; ...
I believe that reason cannot be effective unless man has hope and belief. Goethe was right when he said that the deepest distinction between various historical periods is that between belief and disbelief; and when he added that all epochs in which belief dominates are brilliant, uplifting, and fruitful, while those in which disbelief dominates vanish because nobody cares to devote himself to the unfruitful.
Catherine, thanks for the heads-up about Ray Kurzweil. I am familiar with the so-called "singularity" event when computers (should the present rate of advancement continue) are predicted to overtake humans. Personally though, I believe we are more than just very advanced robots as the scientific materialists think. I guess than means I believe that there is such a thing as an "I" apart from all the constituents, but then where is this mysterious "I" located?
About Occupy Wall St., you make good suggestions. Basically, you want to hold individuals accountable for the crimes of their companies because after all you can't put a company in jail...but the way the system is set up makes it natural for the individual to dodge responsibility, natural too for some people who today support Occupy Wall St. to join the banking system tomorrow if they could, just because the money is too good to refuse. And the latter I think highlights that the problem is not with the individual but with the system that allows it. And yet as I was saying in an earlier comment to Jon, it's almost certainly true that every system is unfair, so it's where we choose our balance. It's no coincidence it seems to me that the fall of communism has preceded the current capitalist crisis. The existence of the communist threat perhaps forced the proponents of capitalism to steer clear of risking its excess. Capitalism and socialism are both flawed systems without the third... emancipation!
Billy, yes! this is exactly what your mother went to see... how cool to know that link! I just read it on wiki:) Much more crowded would be ok as long as we can control it... the greatest danger of course is an extinction event... Since I was talking to Catherine about the singularity, the two events might coincide, and robot historians of the future might study in lessons how they killed us off. :(
Did you see the documentary Inside Job, Okei?
ReplyDeleteNo, but it looks incredibly highly-rated, 8.2 on IMDB. I wonder if this is the real reason Obama had something against Matt Damon's performance in The Adjustment Bureau at the press office dinner. Must have hit a raw nerve.
ReplyDeleteInside Job is a must see, for everyone. There are indiviuals that should be jailed. Obama really dropped the ball there.
ReplyDeleteO, what a disappointment! He's brought the Nobel Peace Prize into disrepute. There are people who need to be held accountable for sure, though I don't think jail is a magic solution to the problem or America would have very low violent crime rates and it doesn't.
ReplyDeleteYou're right about that! No, we need change a paradigm shift in the way society works worldwide. But those lowlifes should be jailed. They ruined the lives of millions and they are still sitting around giving themselves bonuses!
ReplyDeleteI want them to be held accountable. I'm very uncomfortable with any kind of vilification though. For me, it's not about hating on the bankers. Many bankers would support this movement against corporate greed, if they had the freedom to do so. But they work in banking because it's a legal way of getting rich quickly. Maybe it's only a fraction of the bankers that have caused problems as well as the system itself. I can also see how easy it must have been for even the worst excesses to have happened. They gamble with others' money...if they lose or lose double it makes no difference, they lose their job. If they win or win double, there's a big difference, so as long as they're too big to fail, banks and bankers are always going to be tempted to double up..Unless there's govt. oversight at the heart of the system and stiff penalties. I'd much rather see the money followed than put people in jail. The latter will happen if necessary. We need awareness of responsibility for sure... I'm in the rather unfortunate position of both supporting Obama for president and thinking he should be tried for war crimes. I'm not saying he's guilty necessarily, but I think he has a lot to answer for.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I'm talking about a few specific people, not just bankers in general. But you'd have no way of knowing that from what I've written. See the movie, there are specific people who knew what they were doing, knew what the fallout would be, and didn't care. You are right about following the money. Yes, Obama, he sure talked a great talk. I don't know what's worse, having him stay on, or his Conservative opponent. Sorry, Republican.
ReplyDeleteLol!
ReplyDeleteYes, I'd like to see such people tried and their assets frozen in the meantime. Oh, and I just noticed a language difference which changes the tone of what you said...to me jailed means punished for their proven guilt, whereas in America jails are where people are held pending trial...
I'll check it out when I get to a computer which might not be for a few days, but thanks for posting the video!
ReplyDeleteIt's just the trailer. :)
ReplyDeleteWatching this now...
ReplyDeletehttp://vimeo.com/25142692
Still watching, but 38:00 to 43:00 sums it up.
ReplyDeleteMatt Damon is the interviewer isn't he? Really good! I imagine a lot of those in authority who did agree to be interviewed thought he wouldn't have a clue and would give them an easy ride, but he'd really done his research. 1:10:28-1:11:02 "can we turn this interview off please" hahaha
I liked the Soros image of the oil tanker, separating deposit savings and investment banking, but it applies equally to globalisation generally... that a crisis in banking loans could effect every economy of the world because we are connected.
I'm going to have to leave Part IV Accountability 1:14:00 for another day... how ironic!!!
Clever you finding it online! I think Matt is the narrator, but not the interviewer. Haha, yeah that seems to be the way accountability is being handled. :) Glad you are watching it, I'm going to post this link for the others, thank you!
ReplyDelete